Some people erroneously believe that, in Startup Land, pg refers to Paul Graham. But that’s actually not correct. It actually stands for Paul Gassée.
Paul has been a startup founder, an investor, and a sales leader. And for the last 16 years(!) he’s been advising startups on their sales effectiveness.
He worked with us at Wefunder for a number of months last year, and was incredibly helpful in sharing best practices, principles, tips and tricks.
This was a super fun conversation, which covered a wide range of sales topics.
I asked Paul about how you know, as a sales leader, whether a particular strategy is working. Maybe you’ve been trying it for 6 months, there’s some green shoots of growth, but it’s definitely not a slam dunk. Should you keep doubling down, and hope that momentum continues to build over time? Or how do you know when to cut and run?
I loved Paul’s one-word answer: “Judgment”.
Then I asked him what are some of the mistakes that he finds his clients making, when he comes to work for them.
His answer:
(1) Over-doing Product-Led Growth (PLG). Paul has seen a number of founders neglect outbound sales for too long, hoping that “if you will build it they will come”. And dwindling their runway in the process.
(2) Not understanding whether the problem is “the product”, or sales / go-to-market effectiveness.
(3) Selling your product is just not enough. When you are on a sales call, you might have the client’s undivided attention. But two days later, you might have lost their attention. So you need to keep earning their attention through the sales process. And “controlling the sale”.
Then I asked Paul what he thinks makes people awesome at sales. His answers:
(1) Aggression. “A new entry on the Closing Time leaderboard!” — nobody has said this before, in answer to this question. Controversial, but I dig it. Paul nuanced this, by saying that the best sales people “hide their aggression”. Their customers would never call them abrasive or pushy. But there’s a hidden aggression.
(2) Emotional resilience. Sales is a very difficult profession, emotionally. Paul’s tips on how to become more emotionally resilient? Meditation. And self-care. “The best sales people are not the ones working the longest hours. They’re taking care of themselves…You need to be so focused as a sales person. So on. So present.”
(3) Being a sherpa. You need to be guiding the prospect, you need to be their trusted advisor. Paul talked about “leadership ability” — which I really loved.
(4) Being self-effacing. The ability to conduct a post-mortem on a particular deal, and analyze what went right and what went wrong.
(5) Celebrating wins. This helps with the emotional resilience. Paul used to believe that celebrating wins too much would detract from his aggression and edge. But over time he came to believe that celebrating those wins actually gives you more fuel, more oxygen, which can help with the emotional resilience. last one
This last one was in contradiction with what Jeremey Barnett, the founder of Rad, said in my interview with him (here). Jeremy was more of a fan of being unemotional about wins. “Ths is just what I do”.
The difference of opinion between Paul (“celebrate the wins”) and Jeremy (“don’t celebrate the wins”) was helpful in making me crystallize my thinking on a really, really powerful point — everyone is different. Every startup is different. Every situation, sales role, market context is different. And what works for one person / startup / sales process might not work for another. I think this is a critically important point. Probably my favorite ever Founder Secrets episode was this one with Fares Ksebati. In it, he advises startup founders that they should be very careful about who they take advice from. Because even if they’re talking with a very successful founder, who (e.g.) had a unicorn exit for her own startup — her advice might be bad advice for you, because your situation is different.
I have realized this lesson myself, in my role, over the last couple of years. It’s a very, very powerful principle I think.
And the Rapid. Fire. Questions. [Insert pew pew pew sound effect here]:
What do you look for when you’re hiring sales people?
Listening skills. “Some people. Make you feel special. By the way they listen to you.” For example, Bill Clinton. So Paul’s advice: Hire Bill Clinton. He would supercharge your sales. For reals.
The ability to analyze data, and learn from customers and the market. “We should bow to the market. The market always wins”. And so to be effective in a sales role, you need to be able to pick up what the market is putting down. (Umm… I think that works??).
Any interview hacks? Paul is really keen to understand what motivates people. Are they intent on helping people? Because, more often than not, that will lead to strong results.
A memorable deal?
This was a great one. Without a doubt, Paul wins the award for “Best Answer To This Question Ever In The History Of The Closing Time Podcast”. Basically he went to knock on Steve Jobs’ door. Twice. (And went down in flames). But that’s the “aggression” he was talking about above! Takes one to know one!
A controversial opinion you have about sales?
When people say they don’t like sales, it’s because they don’t like sales that’s poorly executed. But when sales is done properly, you feel cared for, and well taken care of.
Basically this:
Paul: “Sales is great, and sales people are awesome.”
Jonny: “Yeah I agree. Sales people are amazing!”
The best sales person you know?
Corey Myers. This dude. A star recruiter, and the founder of a tech talent agency called VonChurch. Why is he so good? He has the gift of the gab, super charismatic. But what Paul was really blown away by — despite this, Corey is a brilliant listener, and super attentive. Another level when it comes to EQ, and picking up signals. And he knows when to turn it off — when he should be talking, and when he shouldn’t.
Corey, we salute you. Welcome to the Closing Time Hall of Fame!!!
If you like what you heard, and you’re interested in connecting with Paul, you can reach him through the Gassée Consulting website here. Or find him on LinkedIn here. Or email him at paul@gassee.com.
And — in THE FIRST EVER “FREE SHIT GIVEAWAY” ON THE CLOSING TIME PODCAST(!!!!!), Paul said he would do a free sales coaching session for any Closing Time listeners. I mean, obviously, BEWARE. If you take that meeting, you know he’s going to close you on a lucrative engagement with him. The guy is a sales demi-god.
He also has some great content on his blog — for example, The Greatest Sales Mistakes Founders Make. Enjoy!
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